What are we going to do about K Street?

K Street looks the way it does due to the legacy of 50 years of redevelopment, the way a lot of western downtowns look after city managers decided that the solution to suburban sprawl was to make downtown resemble a suburban mall. Since that never works, and the attempt destroys many blocks of potentially useful and historic buildings to clear the way for parking and ugly mall buildings, it just makes matters worse. 1950s redevelopment that destroyed the residential neighborhoods along M Street took away the people that shopped on K Street and displaced them to other neighborhoods.

The key to building a downtown is not to make it resemble the suburbs, with malls and paking lots, but to let it be a city, with activity and people. The best example we had of that was Thursday Night Market, a weekly evening event with shopping, crafts, musicians, entertainers, etc. that brought many people downtown. This successful experiment was cut short because, despite the city's best efforts, many of the people who came downtown to join in the fun were neither white nor wealthy. The city's failure is in trying to make downtown revitalization hinge entirely on wealthy people moving downtown, rather than making it an all-inclusive approach.

Want a busy K Street? Instead of Thursday Night Market, a public market EVERY night. Eliminate ALL restrictions on street musicians and performers. Encourage street vendors selling everything from vegetables to jewelry to T-shirts. Appeal to ALL income levels and demographic groups. Provide incentives to encourage them to stay open after dark. People will come out, day and night, to watch the show--and while they're there, they will shop and eat and want to stay. Busy streets are safer than empty streets, and better for business too.

I am not sure what you meant by this statement: "This successful experiment was cut short because, despite the city's best efforts, many of the people who came downtown to join in the fun were neither white nor wealthy."

Several years ago I suggested a public market at a city-wide meeting -- something like Pike Market in Seattle. Downtown Partnership poo-pooed the idea. It's come up in future discussions with ideas that it could be put in the old Greyhound station in that far-away day when it finally moves to the Amtrak Station. We need it now! My idea was the old Woolworths' building which sat vacant for so many years and is now evolving into a performing arts center which will bring people downtown on a limited basis. A publlic market would give people a reason to come everyday, all the time. I think there still needs to be some restrictions...even in the most out-there cities, there are some guidelines. Doesn't mean that you don't still get people who are work outside of the box.

barb: The city's ongoing effort for the past few decades has been to get wealthy whites to move back downtown, while not drawing anybody else. Part of why they fail is because drawing wealthy whites generally requires drawing youth first, which is part of the process some call "revitalization" and others call "gentrification." Thursday Night Market was tremendously successful at drawing people of all ages, social classes, and cultural groups. It also succeeded in drawing lots of youth of various social classes and cultural groups. The police panicked at the presence of youths of certain ethnic and cultural groups, and convinced the city to shut down Thursday Night Market due to safety concerns, and have been looking for a way to draw wealthy whites while simultaneously encouraging those of other socioeconomic classes and cultural/ethnic groups to remain within their, well, I believe the contemporary term is "ethnoburb."

And yes, it's absolute nonsense to try to do things that way, which is part of the problem on K Street.

Who needs a building? There's room for street vendors with EZ-Ups or small tents, just have them set up in the open plazas. Imagine Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley. Set up a simple permitting/regulation program. A little more supervision may be needed in the form of expanded guides or police. Simplify street music restrictions.

The nice thing about this is that it requires NO physical infrastructure improvement. Get the people showing up, and the real estate folks will follow the potential market.

Now I see what you meant; the initial statement was a bit confusing to me. And while I agree that it needs to be a culturally diverse environment, I don't agree about what happened to close down the Thursday market. I worked at 8th & K during those years and was a frequent attender. Over time and as the event grew, there were problems with youth and possibly gangs not dispersing at the end of the night - and while I will agree that some people may have over-reacted, I don't agree this was the main issue for the market's demise. The market was a huge success, all businesses benefited and the city didn't stand to win anything by shutting it down. And believe me, I'm usually the first one to question city response. And yes, wealthy whites are being drawn to downtown -- it's simply the way of the world. I certainly hope it won't mean total gentrification -- my story about the Urban Tattoos was directed at that very concept.

Anyway, we need a mix of people -- but for the years when downtown/midtown wasn't viewed as cool...lots of people didn't want to live there...white or otherwise. I have lived within the city limits for more than 30 years and wouldn't live anywhere else. I embrace cultural diversity and hope that as the city evolves it will take the culture into that evolution. The reality of revitalization is that it takes money...and it takes people wanting to be there...the low income (which includes people of all colors) doesn't usually attract developer dollars.

Why a building? Because it makes it easier in bad weather and can be an every, all day affair. Telegraph is mostly weekends...as I recall. But either way, an indoor venue would certainly not be a bad thing. Less supervision. Fewer mishpas since vendors wouldn't have to set-up and break down. Just easier I believe. either way, it is a nice idea. Pike Market in Seattle and Saint Lawrence Market in Toronto are great examples.

Pike Place is also heavily subsidized--the city has to pay farmers to sell produce at prices comparable to local stores in order for them to break even.

The building can come later. Start the open-air market now (well, in the spring) and the buildings will follow: the basic idea is to get things going immediately, then once the crowds are there the businesspeople, who tend to be conservative about things like this, will follow the money. All one really needs is a vacant storefront, not a purpose-built structure, and there are already plenty of those on K Street.

If you disagree about why Thursday Night Market was ended, then why do you think Thursday Night Market was ended? Part of the problem is the very idea of "the end of the night": young people want to hang out late, and if they can do so, that's a sign of success, not failure. I was one of those "young people" hanging out late at the time, and was even more funny-looking than I am now, so maybe it's just me and my friends' fault that Thursday Night Market closed...but, as you mentioned, the problem certainly wasn't lack of attendance.

I don't have a problem with wealthy whites (I do, after all, hope to be one someday) but the problem with trying to attract ONLY wealthy whites is that, also as you specified, income diversity makes for a healthier city. Wealthy whites interested in urban living want to live in a hip place with lots of young people around. And yes, that doesn't mean no rules, but it does mean the city and developers opening the doors to things that appeal to a more diverse population, and of course that giant bugaboo "affordable housing" (meaning housing affordable to people making $36,000 a year.)

I agree it needs to be cleaned up get Moe out. It should also be opened to bikes.

Wburg is spot on in regards to his keys for enlivening downtown. Nightly markets, street vendors and perfromers etc.. I guess I would only disagree with one point. Downtown needs a healthy mix of all incomes. However in years past and still to this day, most of the housing in the central business district are single room occupancy hotels and senior citizen apartments. The city will need to lure developers of higher end and middle income housing. More people living downtown is a must for luring more retail and entertainment options.
As far as Mohanna, the best thing that can happen is for the city to succeed in their negotiations with him, or failing that to prevail using eminent domain. Slumlords like Mohanna are why local governments need eminent domain.

Actually, sactown_jpb, we agree on that point. There is certainly room for luxury housing downtown, in addition to moderate-income, low-income, and SRO units (which are not the same as low-income apartments)--easily several thousand people. However, there are currently several apartment buildings in the central business district that are not SROs, including the Regis at 11th and K (and another apartment building around the corner), the Loftworks buildings at 16th and J/K (one old, one new) and new buildings like 800 J. Other buildings, like the Bel-Vue (a former Mo Mohanna property, currently it belongs to the city of Sacramento), are currently vacant but could be restored to residential use pretty easily. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing some of the other downtown buildings that were converted to office use (like the Ramona, the Traveler's Hotel or the Senator) turned into condos; the biggest success story in downtown condominium living right now is D&S Development's "iLofts" project in the old Mechanics Exchange building in Old Sac. Given that success, a similar project downtown (like the Loftworks project) might do very well indeed. Add in a few new residential towers (I'm still hoping that David Taylor can resucitate Aura at 6th and Capitol) and you add, potentially, several thousand downtown residents.

The central business district's lack of housing (other than SRO hotels) is the legacy of redevelopment efforts of the mid 20th century. Until the 1950s and 1960s, M Street (now Capitol Avenue) was a densely populated residential neighborhood, and most of the SRO hotels were along the waterfront (what is now Old Sacramento.) Hotels like the Berry and the Marshall were traditional hotels for travelers, although by that time many travelers preferred the new "motor hotels" along the highway that ran down Sixteenth Street.

When local redevelopment efforts leveled the residential neighborhoods along M Street and emptied the residential hotels along the waterfront, and failed to replace the housing that they destroyed, the previous residents moved to other nearby neighborhoods--mid 20th century urban planners held the opinion that downtown was for working, shopping and entertainment, not for living. The folks who had been living along the waterfront, mostly single men and migrant workers, moved into the downtown hotels. Since then, most of the downtown SROs have already been destroyed (like the Californian, the Clunie, and the Royal) and there are only a handful of those buildings left.

It erally is very hard to find a decent rental downtown that is fairly priced. Even the ones in Mid-town are either expensive or old and need to be updated badly. I just moved into a unit that didn't include a fridge. Bringing something like the Thursday Night Market back would be great. There are few things to do in Sacramento. I think that the City needs to take the citizens best interest at heart and not the Downtown Partnership or the whiney and overreacting Sac PD. Everytime there are too many minorities or teenagers around these two groups do what they can to dissolve it. Why do you think Festival de la Familia had to move to Cal Expo? If there were things for young people, even just perople to do around here there would be less problems. It's the PD's job to police people and break up crowds after such events. If they don't want to do it then they should get new jobs. This is why people think of us as a "cow town," we have nothing to do here. If we had something like a Riverwalk or something like the Pike Market, then we would have more tourism. We do have a significant number of annual events here like the State Fair, Olympic Track & Field, Cheerleading competitions, etc. that bring in large crowds. If there was something fun for the people to do here while they were at thses events the community could make a killing.

I hope K street mall is fine soon and that we all can live holy and be holy in conversation about it with God. Cleannness is next to Godliness. Amen.

Very interesting conversation. I enjoyed reading about a new viewpoint on why downtown is the way it is.
It makes me sad to travel around downtown and see so many buildings vacant. It makes me mad that so many people move out to Elk Grove and Roseville. This is a viewpoint I would like to add. Who WANTS to live downtown? How will the city attract people BACK to the city? Bums, vacant old buildings and nothing going on.
Downtown is slowly coming back to life. I think it is part of the times. Younger generations have different ideals or whatever. I have noticed clubs and restaurants opening up like crazy. Hopefully this will generate public interest in the downtown area. I believe downtown will come back.

downtown is dead for a reason, PARKING. it can't compete with the Mall's with free parking, when downtown was busy, there were no malls. the Greyhound and railroad deal, if you can't figure out 8th and K how can you figure out these other two deals????

I pray K Street mall is going to be built up soon. I love a good clean place to live.

Question - I don't see many comments about the vagrant issues. Although I agree with the Tuesday Nights - people need to feel safe and comfortable. It doesn't matter what race or salary range, I believe this feeling is universal.
We don't have enough police and downtown is still loaded with homeless. I live and work downtown and see it every day.
I used to live in the bay area. Mountain View had great street events that were culturally diverse and successful. The streets were clean, no panhandlers and there were enough police on horseback to scare off troublemakers. Sacramento has the potential to have the same thing, but the foundation needs to be set first.

Parking was tried decades ago: a lot of blocks of downtown that used to be homes and businesses and churches were leveled to make parking structures and parking lots. It didn't work. There's plenty of parking downtown, street parking is free after 6:00 PM, garages are cheap, and except for a few crunchy high-traffic areas it's not exactly rocket science to find parking.

As to the vacant buildings, most of the vacant structures you see downtown are that way because the developers who own the land want to knock those buildings down and build skyscrapers--they're deliberately KEPT that way. There are plenty of people here (it's the most densely populated part of the city, and the region) and more are clamoring to get in--downtown/midtown Sacramento is about the only place where property values are holding instead of plummeting.

Anyone who considers downtown "dead" hasn't been here lately. Or they never look beyond K Street between I-5 and Ninth Street. There's so much going on here that my main problem with weekends is picking which of several cool events I want to attend...if I have the time! That or the energy...at 39 I can't count myself as one of the "younger generation" anymore, but the kids these days certainly seem to like it down here a lot, and they make a ruckus doing it!

I'm sure Mountain View is a cute little town, but it's not exactly comparable to Sacramento in size, scale or issues. 70,000 population? Downtown six blocks long? 12 square miles? Not exactly in the same category as Sacramento.

Regional population centers (like San Francisco, Oakland, Los Angeles, or Sacramento) tend to become dumping grounds for surrounding counties' lack of social services. Suburban counties' services for homeless are often limited to a bus ticket to the nearest big city. And for those in Yolo, Placer, El Dorado, Yuba or Sutter Couty, that generally means Sacramento. Unfortunately for us, it's a bit of a stretch to ship them to San Francisco, nor is that much of a solution to the problem of homelessness. Somehow, San Francisco and Los Angeles seem to do okay despite having homeless people and not much parking. Cities can deal with such problems; suburban towns can't.

Downtown was a great place to shop, hang out, and sight see, The Downtown partnership started to go downhill when they ended their "clean sweep" program, they would power wash the alcoves, pick up trash for 8 hours a day. Their "downtown guides" are a joke, just they do not provide any security what-so-ever!! they hang out in Starbucks and try to pick up on women all day. The cops they have patrolling, they are a bigger joke!! I will NOT be visiting Downtown any time soon. By the way, take a look at the Megan's Law web-site, type in the addresses of the flea bag motels..absolutely shocking, not to mention scary.

Not sure if you've been around recently, but Downtown Partnership still has their power-washing "Fight the Funk" crew working on K Street, mostly in the alleys. The guides do a lot of good work, I see them in action--as well as downtown police--all the time, and typically they're not hanging out at Starbucks.

It's kind of like "Star Trek" watching Downtown Partnership crew at work--different uniform colors denote different jobs. The yellow-shirted Guides are best known, but there are also blue-shirted Navigators, who work directly with folks on the street and try to refer them to services--the idea is to help them break the cycle of homelessness, but that can be kind of a tough order. The "red shirts" are the clean-up crews, who do power washing and sweeping.

k street is finna be white owned and end up shutting down cuz no bodyy fina wanna go there buh wel have old sac smakmnn like alwayz fuk da boiz

Making the K Street Mall like the Pike Street Market is a pretty little pipe dream, but downtown Sac just doesn't have the same appeal or potential. And saying that the city's previous efforts concerned appealing to "wealthy whites" from the burbs and that the police "panicked" at the presence of youth of "certain ethnic and cultural groups" is just too simple and pat a stereotype. First, there are people of all color ranges in Sacramento who are at least middle class if not "wealthy" (and there are a whole lot more middle class whites than wealthy ones) who would be attracted to happenings & events that are...well, attractive! Second, I don't think anyone of any color wants to be around a bunch of thugs & punks causing trouble, whatever the ethnic or cultural background of said thugs & punks. Sacramento may just have to face the fact that it is basically a government town that employs people of all colors & ethnic backgrounds and those that work downtown go home to the burbs at night. If areas are attractive, they attract - for example, Old Sac. And if the old SP railyards can be revitalized intelligently, that area may be attractive too. A Kings arena would have helped, but the greedy Maloofs blocked it & I can understand why the taxpayers didn't want to foot the bill. Still, there is hope for the area.

"Sacramento may just have to face the fact that it is basically a government town that employs people of all colors & ethnic backgrounds and those that work downtown go home to the burbs at night. If areas are attractive, they attract - for example, Old Sac."

But that statement isn't true now--I work downtown, and I don't go home to the burbs at night So do plenty of people I know. There is enough demand for housing in the central city that property values downtown haven't taken nearly the nosedive that properties in the suburbs have, because people do want to live here.

Old Sac attracts within a certain context, but it gets pretty dead in the off-season and on weekend nights. It didn't always attract--it was once a neighborhood of low-rent residential hotels, where respectable people didn't go at night. Kind of like K Street is now, aside from a few late-night destinations that, despite the reports from people who never come down here, turn out quite a crowd.

And yes, Sacramento is and has always been a diverse place--but the efforts of the city were very much towards drawing an affluent (middle-class at least) and generally white (or, at least, affluent non-white) audience downtown, and the exclusion of those who didn't fit their profile. Thursday Night Market wasn't ended because of poor attendance--people came out in great numbers. It was because the city and the police were unnerved by the population that came out, that didn't meet their expectations, and it certainly wasn't overrun by "thugs and punks."

Ive not been here as long as some of you natives. But Being from L.A. and having spent time in Portland, I think I have to agree with when he says. "despite the city's best efforts, many of the people who came downtown to join in the fun were neither white nor wealthy. The city's failure is in trying to make downtown revitalization hinge entirely on wealthy people moving downtown, rather than making it an all-inclusive approach."

And it appears to me that the city favors state workers and professional types to complete its composition of itself as a modern yuppie mecca. This is a rude and anticultural approach to creating a hometown neighborhood vibe.

Finally, I agree with William_a_burg: "Want a busy K Street? Instead of Thursday Night Market, a public market EVERY night. Eliminate ALL restrictions on street musicians and performers. Encourage street vendors selling everything from vegetables to jewelry to T-shirts. Appeal to ALL income levels and demographic groups. Provide incentives to encourage them to stay open after dark. People will come out, day and night, to watch the show--and while they're there, they will shop and eat and want to stay. Busy streets are safer than empty streets, and better for business too."
And Ive seen smilar at Santa Monica's Third Street Promenade, Long Beach's Pine Street, Old Colorado Blvd, Pasadena, etc..

After reading the top few posters(all with very good suggestions)I think I also have a very good addition to make(it will be my last point). Downtown was "the" place to shop/be entertained until city"suits"decided to "revitalize" the waterfront & vacate the "bums." I remember my folks predicting the "bums will only move further up town & ruin businesses THERE!" Well,guess what? Add to the fact,that malls started to appear on the scene(even though they were further away for the"local"local folks(@ 5 mi. radius),they were more attractive than what the city planners did for that area the first few years. Didn't you know that once a person becomes cloaked in gov't officialdom,they soon become so much "wiser" than ANY citizen at large? Case in point: A few decades ago,A proposition was put on the city ballot to rid the city parking meters. It passed easily.Then the "city" proclaimed that the measure was only an "advisory measure" & not a "mandate" & then said "after taking the vote under advisement,it was decided that it would be more expedient to the city to keep & maintain(read:ticket those who underfeed)the meters. I believe that allthe posts I read made very valid points. Why don't you become active in your community,however small or large,it CAN make a difference!Go to meetings,make alliances with like-minded people,become active enough to become known,find out how to raise campaign monies & campaign ad/or run for office,if you feel the need,& try to unseat the selfish "suit" that "run" things.The singularly most important fact to be aware of in any challenging pusuit is,PERSERVERENCE!! If you stumble or fall in your pursuit of whatever,pick yourself up & continue the race.Use any setbacks a learning experience & slightly modify your route,method or capital without surrendering your goal. The road is full of potholes,of which, many you will fall into.Climb out & follow your dream. & REMEMBER,concession ALWAYS preceeds failure,NOT the other way around! In other words: you CANNOT possibly fail,until you first QUIT(or die trying,but in politics smeone else almost always picks up the banner ).THAT is the #1 Law of Success!!

Yes, look up the site "non-profit to help the poor an needy to be self-sufficient" and help build something good to help those you reference as "bums" to be able to care for themselves. I have become ashamed of the human race and feel pity for them. They all claim they practice some religion that is suppose to be all good, yet people today have become cold harded, and cruel to each other. Everyone out in society could be in the place of those you seem to condemn. With the economy as it is, every you could be there soon. Maybe this entire nation needs to collapse to allow people to start learning to help each other again.
I have watched values be taken away, cast aside in the name of justice or patriotism, or in regards to terrorism, and the entire nation seems to care nothing about others anymore. People live next door to each other for years and never once attempts to say hello or take a gift of friendship to them to meet them. WHY?
You complain of "bums" yet what are you going to do to help raise them up? It's like voting, if you don't vote, don't complain. If you wish the "bums" gone, contact me at tae.allgiver@... and offer your support to help build a non-profit for the very reason you would like. It will raise up the "bums" and remove them from the streets. Give a call, and give an offer of support to build a 501(c)(3) to do good works.
What we all must ask ourselves is: do we serve our Creator by doing good deeds unto others freely, or do we serve ourselves and the world (satan) for ourselves. I'll wait for your call.

K Street renovation, lightrail extensions to W.Sac, Elk Grove and SMF... Where will the funding come from since California is going broke?

It is a mess down there and more christian values and a attitude is needed to keep buildings safe. I will pray for a counsel of the minds and more money for buildings to stay.

What people need is to create an advocacy to go to the legislature and demand they do something to change tings. I suggested a pla to teh governor for non-profits for the people. These would afford funding for various matters (education, welfare, highways, etc), allow the poor to be trained in a vocation skils, and create jobs for over 600 or more california citizens. It was rejected as a prank or lacking. Yet, California has nothing to help anyone with and continues to raise taxes upon its citizens because of the representatives ignorance. Until the people pull together to change events and demand things to help the state, the people should not complain because if they are not willing to stand and make voice they are not as concerned as they believe they are.

IF you want to bring this area alive, ask the business folk that bring us Second Saturday. I would bet that one evening a month brings in thousands of dollars and it makes the area safe and fun.

Also, tell the city to keep their stupid ideas to themselves and allow the area to evolve. It has everything needed to blossom if only the City Planning department would stop killing it with 'hobby horses'

Roving Richard: K Street now has its own event, "Design Downtown," that takes place on the third Saturday of the month, put on by folks from the Sacramento News & Review. It just started this past weekend, and people came out to see it despite 106 degree temperatures.

I am so glad. It really looks bad down there with everything dying. Maybe it is time for the world to end.

Very interesting to say. The City Counsel may be going down hill to. Amen.

william_a_burg, Due to other commitments I was unable to attend, I hope it was well received.

My intention was communicating that something like "Second Saturday" or "Design Downtown" but as a daily activity and energy level was needed to bring K Street back to life. It should be live and lively and alive and energetic. It should be that way 7 days a week, not one day a month. Street artists and brick and mortar stores can co-exist and make each other prosperous. For some reason these two groups have been put at odds with each other. A person that came to see a movie and buys a hot dog from a street vendor did not take a costumer away from a restaurant, he did spend $1.50 that otherwise would have been unspent. A person that was lifted out of a mental slump by a street musician and then went to a movie and dinner is a movie and dinner purchased that would have been un-purchased.
The person that was simply bored and came to K Street as something to do will probably spend money and have a good time and next time bring friends.
"Second Saturday" and "Design Downtown" are in themselves a destination, inside them business occurs. Expand on this idea.

Downtown should be a 24/7 place to enjoy. When are they going to allow an atmosphere that is going to bring in people year round? Streets kept a bit cleaner would help. Simple things like they use to have flower pots around all the posts hanging on them. Requirements that owners must wash down their store fronts and side walks does help each day. I know we must conserve water but some of these places smell of urine outside of them. Who wants to walk in to dine someplace to have it smell like urine on the outside? Requirements that all store owners must keep clean the areas surrounding the establishments or be fined. It's going to employ someone. They can get a commerical business to clean down the fronts and sidewalks by pitching in together like a business association. Or do it themselves. How about desgining store fronts to be more in line with the era with face lifts.. Paint, shutters, spruce up the look of the entire downtown area. Something like might be found in Cape Cod, Monterey, etc. Flower vendors with carts of flowers on the streets, I mean I like vendors they need to make a living too. Not just hot dog vendors but those deemed good for the areas. Open the area up a bit. Welcome people into downtwon not just on K Street but the entire downtown area.

yes walking is my song--i love old sac on the river-the river walk in reno abeauti ful secene- K street would be a scene to be enjoyed -tour companies might support such entereasting walks lets get creative

Great point by William_A_Burg: "Tell the city to keep their stupid ideas to themselves and allow the area to evolve.
It has everything needed to blossom if only the City Planning department would stop killing it with 'hobby horses'"

This is what I have always suspected. As if someone doesnt want this area to be fun and exciting like the way I am told it was during the 50's and 60's. And I keep asking myself, why not??

BORnin313: That was "Roving Richard" above, not me, although I do agree with the basic sentiment. I think that the "Design Downtown" event will be an effective foot in the door to encourage more activity on the street throughout the month, as "Second Saturday" has boosted interest in Midtown to the degree that it has a positive effect on foot traffic and business through the rest of the month. Although it is not the city alone: some parts of the local development community would probably prefer to see K Street continue its decline so they have an excuse to knock down more historic buildings because they dream of office towers that never get built...and they have enough friends at City Hall to ensure a half-hearted effort at best to enliven K Street with inexpensive things like street vendors and musicians.

If K Street is to be saved, the answers probably won't come from city hall or the development community. Local media, local artists and local small business will most likely take the lead, and to some extent they already have.

The 50s and 60s were the decline of K Street: it started going downhill in 1947 when the streetcars shut down, accelerated when people moved to the suburbs and started shopping at suburban malls instead of downtown. Trying to turn it into a suburban mall has never worked--but turning it into something that can't be found in the suburbs just might.

katcha: Downtown Sacramento Partnership runs a historic tour program, but yes, Sacramento is vastly under-toured.

Blue-eyes: The Downtown Sacramento Partnerhship has a "Fight the Funk" team that washes down alleys and buildings on a pretty regular basis. Maybe just not often enough...

Mr. Burg, just did a fast Google search on your name, It's a pleasure to write to you here.

In the late '80's I was in the Hollywood area and a land investment company was attempting to get control of the north end of Hollywood Blvd. There they used the tactic of having the area declared a 'Historic District" and worked to get code changes so the it was imposable to maintain the buildings as they 'had to be restored to an As Built Condition' making earthquake retrofit or fire sprinkler system installation impossible, both of whci were and are required by state law. They had hoped the area would continue to fall into disrepair and be condemned at which point they were prepared to step in and buy the then 'worthless' properties. Fortunately some of the land owners were able to track and the troublesome new codes back to this group and get the codes canceled.

Though I am 'new' to Sacramento having moved here 4 years ago from the LA area it sounds like a variation of this is in use. I would suspect that there are codes that got adopted that are standing in the way of the maintenance of the buildings and the prosperity of the K St Mall area that were 'well intended' on the surface but if rescinded would allow the area to become well maintained and prosperous.

They sure need to increase the wash downs to the front and sides of buildings that sit on corners as does Centro's, Spaghetti Factory, Bernardo's, Jack's and many more. Don't stop at the alley's. When people stop deeming it appropriate to pee on the walls of these shops, restaurants, allowing their kids to pee on the wall of Centro's when I was last there. Does not anyone get how long Hep is active in that urine, talk about other communicable diseases? I love it downtown having live here all of my life.. Enjoyed the old downtown of long ago yesteryear as a kid this is going to date me.. the Fox Theatre was open, The Alhambra was open not just a water fountain today where Safeway now rests. When people found fun downtown? I love the second Saturday concept but let's go one step beyond. Let me up this you can still find fun but darn it costs today.. the average family today can't afford going out Mom and Dad are on furlough these day's. I can't even afford health insurance and certainly not dental insurances I'm self employed. I'd love to find an answer to those last two thoughts. I work fifty hours a week, five day's a week and can't afford medical insurance because I'm paying the electric, food, gas, auto insurances, homeowners insurances, gasoline, PGnE, all other aspects of costs to live. I'm still figuring out how I'm going to pay for my medical emergency of earlier this year.. any suggestions? It's about five to six thousand between a five minute ride in an ambulance to the emergency room for six hours. That would be about one thousand an hour.

I stand corrected as I beg Mr. R_Richard's pardon. Thank you gentlemen, from ahem... Bornin323, not 313, which is on the other end of the country...lol

BORNin323 - No Problem, It's understanding the communication that's important.

Blue-eyes - Believe me I understand finding entertainment on a tight budget.

What I would like to see the the K St Mall is street artists. musicians, performers allowed to work the area, sort of an outdoor cabaret. No electronics as that would get into volume competition ad reduce the number of artists that could work at any given time.

The City should relax it's requirement for establishments to have live entertainment and dancing so the best of the street artists could be invited into the shops to perform for tips or what ever.

Just a few ideas.

I think the City of Sacramento should offer FREE PARKING in downtown Sacramento evenings and all day weekends. Their parking restrictions are mean spirited and keep people away. I live in midtown Sacramento and I will not attend evening events where I have to drive, because of outrageous parking fees. For example, attending a matinee or evening performance at the civic auditorium costs an additional $8-$10 for parking in almost empty public parking buildings.

parking is a big problem , too-o expensive, i wish people going to the state fair this year could buy parking permits along with their pre-bought fair tickets. help any one out there. lower the parking rate.

I most certainly agree with you. What it does is give everyone another excuse to go elsewhere. Who wants to be popping money into meters, spending ten at a lot? It should not be privledge to park downtown but the City should be privledged to have us park there to add to the economy. This only scares people off. We all need money today not just the City!

There is no such thing as free parking. Someone pays for it, either the driver or the city. Downtown land is expensive, so parking on that land costs more than parking in the suburbs. Free parking gets filled very quickly, so having free parking often means that parking is harder to find.

Incidentally, parking downtown is already free after 6:00 PM, and all day Sunday, except for a small area around Music Circus.

Roving Richard: That's not how preservation regulations work. It is possible to get exceptions to some code rules for historic buildings, but preservation does not mean building owners don't have to do any maintenance. Maintenance of buildings is a matter of code enforcement, not whether or not a building is in a preservation district. Preservation codes don't prohibit earthquake reinforcement or sprinkler installation--it is done all the time, as an important part of preserving historic buildings is making them less likely to burn down or fall down.

I must have read the signs wrong? Didn't they just explain to us that parking is going to be charged on the weekend nights? That parking will cost everyone until what was it midnight? Maybe I heard it wrong but that is what I thought. I never found those meters for free parking the other night, it's a joke my friend. I did find a few free spots near Centro's Restaurant.. I find it's easier to find a location nearby and pay it there in a building.

Offering free (City) garage parking downtown evenings and weekends does not require additional parking expense to the taxpayer. Parking garages are mostly EMPTY now during those hours. If the City wants more interest in downtown businesses, turning K Street back to automobile use should be a last resort (expense) decision after they have tried everything else. Real life example: Going to lunch and matinee theatre at the Delta King using the City parking garage near Macy's will cost around $8-$9 for parking even with the $5 discount ticket given at the Delta King. A real turn-off for me.

blue-eyes: There was an article in the Bee that mentioned extending enforcement hours until midnight, but that has not been passed or even seriously explored. Currently, parking is free after 6:00 PM, and on Sundays, and neighborhoods with 1 or 2 hour parking enforcement don't enforce after 6 PM or at all on weekends. Personally I like the idea of increasing enforcement until midnight, but they haven't done it yet.

gloria r: Parking garages are empty on evenings and weekends because parking on the street is free on evenings and Sundays--there is no need to use a garage unless you want the added convenience of proximity to the garage. Other parking garages are empty because they are private or state owned and see no current need to make themselves open to the public. Operating parking garages is not free, they require electricity, cleaning, maintenance and staffing. Making something "free" in that sense only means someone else is paying for it.

Lunch on the Delta King and matinee theatre (for, I assume, two) cost you how much, around $100? That $8-9 for parking is kind of a small chunk compared to what you were going to spend anyhow, although you might have saved a few bucks and steps by parking in the Old Sacramento parking structures or the Amtrak station parking lot.

WilliamB,

When you wrote: "Roving Richard: That's not how preservation regulations work. It is possible to get exceptions to some code rules for historic buildings, but preservation does not mean building owners don't have to do any maintenance. Maintenance of buildings is a matter of code enforcement, not whether or not a building is in a preservation district. Preservation codes don't prohibit earthquake reinforcement or sprinkler installation--it is done all the time, as an important part of preserving historic buildings is making them less likely to burn down or fall down."

I realized I was not clear, the codes in Los Angeles did not 'prohibit' renovations or maintenance, it just put in place requirements that made it so expensive that most property owners could not comply. For example; when renovating a bathroom it could only be restored to 'as built' meaning if it was built with 1" thick marble partitions, that's how it had to be renovated. The apparent purpose was to restore Hollywood to it's past splendor, the real purpose was to discourage restoration and renovation by refusing to allow new technologies and materials to be used.
When earthquake upgrades were done the buildings interior and exterior had to be restored to 'As Built'. You can easily see the magnitude of added expense. When I moved to Hollywood in the late 70's Hollywood Blvd. looked like K St. or worse. When the regulations were revoked or modified to fit reality the area boomed, including the Kodak Center being built which could not be done under the earlier regulations.

My point is that the City Planning Commission was doing the dirty work for private developers but did not realize it.

Ideas like 'Free parking isn't free' were used to drive off costomers by putting in a one hour limit on parking meters (gee, fine dining in under an hour, a 55 minute movie).

In Walnut Creek the business got together and built several parking structures at their expense and parking is free to shoppers, diners, theater goers for 4 hours, no validation needed. Employees got passes for their parking areas. All have access to free shuttle buses from parking to all points of the business district. Public Transportation linked with the 'shoppers transportation'.

The city's job is to make sure that the area and buildings are safe, not to micro-manage how the area is used. Let the business figure it out for themselves and get the city government back to planing broad basics.

As long a the city's revenue is based on land and real estate value instead of a healthy commerce inside the city there will be a problem.

Yes, real estate is expensive, but it's part of doing business. It's not the city's job to provide parking other than having zoning provisions for it.

Sacramento's preservation regulations don't regulate the interiors of buildings at all, so that doesn't apply here. Allowing exterior remodeling that doesn't maintain a building's historic appearance doesn't make any sense if the goal is to preserve historic buildings.

Free parking really isn't free (the city pays for on-street parking expenses, which comes from property taxes) but the downtown movie theater will validate parking for 4 hours (and patronizing any other mall business will validate for 3 hours) so I don't buy the idea that going to the city parking garage instead of parking on the street is any great difficulty.

If businesses want to build a free parking garage at their expense, more power to them--THEY ARE PAYING FOR IT. Expecting the city to provide parking for them on the public dime is unrealistic, and it sounds like businesses in Walnut Creek realized that.

Walnut Creek is also a much smaller city than Sacramento--64,000 people compared to Sacramento's roughly 450,000--and they are not the primary city of their region. So Sacramento's parking issues are just a bit bigger than Walnut Creek's.

"Yes, real estate is expensive, but it's part of doing business. It's not the city's job to provide parking other than having zoning provisions for it."
I agree entirely--it is not the city's job to provide free parking. If people want to park on the public streets where parking is in enormous demand, they should expect to pay for it. Streets are public right-of-way, not private property, so they are the city's to regulate.

Incidentally, the city has a couple of public lots, but most of downtown's parking lots are private or state owned. None of them are free.

Even if there were 100 free parking structures downtown, first this area that carries historical significance for the city needs businesses that will attract the regular traffic flow of the typical demographic of the area. And right now, there seems to be a desire to overlook that. Upscale shops and resturants intended to discourage homeless vagrancy and loitering may be fine for phat pockets. But they dont attract the kind of consumer volume needed to jumpstart what could blossom into a K Street Promenade. First lets make it comfy for some down to earth-priced retailers and resturants to get in there and generate some excitement on our economically challenged main drags and build from there. Both regular folks and the desired yuppie trendies will benefit from the convenience and diversity. You gotta go from the bottom up in game. Not from the top down because wealthy consumers are not ready to charge over to a barren failing downtown right now and ignore all the comforts already available in areas like Folsom, Natomas or The Pocket areas.

open more businesses and hire more people and find ways to have the so called bums earn a few dolars for cleaning around the area and just being good citizens?

In kinder times (that makes me feel so old!) My boss would 'hire' a street person to sweep the sidewalk and wash the windows and 'pay' with a meal. Once a week he'd hire one to wash down the entire front of the building, sidewalk and gutter and pay with a meal and card to the local laundramat for 2 loads of laundry wash and dry. Other businesses on the street paid in other ways. The homeless/unimployed were there but helped this way and usually worked themselves back into the community. We each realized the WE were the government and did our part and did not refer it to some agency on the other side of town.

People like Mo provide a lower rent space where new starting businesses can make a start (if the City isn't trying to covertly take his property and chasing out his tennants so he has no cash flow to make improvements) so provide value that is needed in restarting an area.

I mentioned this same thing in an earler feed that a way to bring some help and change is to embrace the homeless in a way that makes them feel needed and allow them to help instead of trying to exclude them as it they are invisible, they are never going to go away, but we CAN help to change their behavors by being a support to positive behavors and reinforcing it with rewards and small payments for their help.

We do need to get back to a place where things are more affordible for the little people, and even the fields so more people can afford to purchase things. Still peopel are never satisfied!

But alas we need to come up with some soutions that would benifit more people to come to the K street mall

True they wont be leaving any time soon as long as there are so many well intended freebies and services available here. Thats what the complaining general public doesnt get-- that many the "so called bums" want to slide along getting stuff for nothing. Thats what makes a person a bum.
however, I agree with you and Richard that opportunities need to be available to those who are unfortunate and just need a chance to prove that they would like to be self-sufficient productive people like they once were.

I think historically that the mindset that stumbles and even impedes development here, that still wants to think of Sacramento as this archaic small minded Mayberry RFD, instead of the civic minded State Capitol that it actually is, is still having too much say about the city's advancement.
Hence, areas like K Street, with its hoodrat and bum infestation, remains a liability that ambitious developers are leary of investing any time or dollars into.